Making Risk Flow is back for its sixth season! In the first episode of the new series, host Juan de Castro speaks with Bettina Dietsche, Chief People and Culture Officer at Allianz Group, one of the world's largest and most diversified insurance and asset management companies. Bettina is a global executive with over 25 years of international experience in leading and managing business, sales, and operational divisions in the financial services, insurance, and IT industries.
Together, Juan and Bettina discuss the intersection of technology, people, and culture in the ever-evolving landscape of commercial insurance. The pair also talk through how to foster a culture that embraces both digital transformation and personal development, the need for upskilling for the future via lifelong learning, and the importance of valuing and leveraging the experience of older employees while also embracing the innovation and dynamism of younger generations.
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Juan de Castro: Hello, my name is Juan de Castro and you're listening to Making Risk Flow. Every episode, I sit down with my industry-leading guests to demystify digital risk flows, share practical knowledge, and help you use them to unlock scalability in commercial insurance. Bettina, thank you so much for joining me today in this new episode of Season 6 of Making Risk Flow. We're going to talk about a set of really relevant topics, so I'm really looking forward to the discussion. But let's jump straight in. Can you give us an overview of your current role and your background?
Bettina Dietsche: Yes, Juan, happy to be here. Looking forward to our discussion. I’m the Chief People and Culture Officer of the Allianz Group. That means I oversee what we do whenever it comes to our people, employees, the talent we want to hire, and the candidates. I focus on the cultural elements because obviously we all know you want to be in a culture where you can thrive, where diversity matters, where the strategic way of how our workforce develops is a key element. And lastly, obviously, and that's why I'm a strange animal to that role, I come from IT. So my background has been that I worked in COO roles and I've always been between technology, IT, transformation, operations, procurement, real estate. So all the fun stuff, which is about getting the ball rolling for a company. But with that background, obviously for me, also the topic of data technology is key because I clearly see that the role of people officers is evolving more and more, moving away from what it was in the past. When it was about human resources and the processes, more into sitting at the table with our business colleagues to make a difference for them. It’s why I consider myself a bit of a strange animal. But I think in the times where speed matters, where technology matters, maybe a nice way of looking at how we make our people thrive with the situation all around us where technology is really a key contributor, a key enabler. So that's a bit of what you can expect from me as someone who's not been in a career where people function their whole life.
Juan de Castro: Yeah, I'm sure we'll touch a number of times on these two elements, the technology and the people and the implications of one on the other. When we discussed doing this episode, I thought it was a very relevant topic, how to evolve your people organisation in a context where technology is evolving fast? Let's jump straight in. This is probably not the conventional way of doing it, but let's start with the challenges. As I said, in this context of technology evolving quickly, what do you see are the major challenges in the Allianz employee base?
Bettina Dietsche: Probably I would say what keeps me busy the most is that I see the speed, the speed of change, the speed of how quickly we need to adapt to new technology, to changing circumstances, to a lot of what's happening in the world, where I can see the stresses coming through for our employees, where adoption speeds, feeling comfortable in using new technologies, coping with what's out there, that this is probably the biggest challenge, I would say. And that is not just for our people. Also, when I talk to new talent or people we would like to hire, I see from the questions coming through that this is also stressful to them or a challenge for them. That's why, how would I want to position what we do, what is a challenge, but also an opportunity because I think that every challenge has its way of how you grab it and run with it and make a difference. And if I look at it from our element, I would probably say that the culture of learning, this lifelong learning thinking, where we need to make sure that people feel comfortable in constantly adopting, learning new things, applying it, making an experience with it, that will make the difference. That's why for me, it's more an opportunity that we stay close to our people, offer what makes them better, faster, more productive, more embracing the customer, also changing, obviously. And with this learning attitude, I think that is what will make our people stay employable for the future. Knowing also that many jobs will disappear or many jobs will change dramatically. If I look at the skills and the assessments I get from looking at universities or LinkedIn, we just had as someone who joined us, the message in three to five years, the skills the people require will be 60, 70% different than what we have today. That's massive. And it's a relatively short time frame where we need to make sure that people adapt, cope with it, feel comfortable, feel productive, feel not threatened, but invited by what the new technology is doing. And that's probably a long answer to your question. But if I look at it in this universe, I think that's the biggest challenge. But as I said, it is also an opportunity where we can make a difference for our people and also for the talents we want to attract.
Juan de Castro: And Bettina, when you talk about speed, let's dive into that. Why is speed a challenge? I can imagine it's becoming one side, Allianz is very large. Is it because of the speed at which you as a large organisation can move? But I guess that is also compounded by the speed at which technology moves.
Bettina Dietsche: I think it's not just because of the size because I would probably say speed also for smaller companies is a challenge. And it's not how you mobilise a whole organisation. It's also that the change of what you talk about, what you want to learn changes so fast. Imagine, it's fair to say that one and a half years back, not even one and a half years back, the topic of Gen AI was not at all on our thinking or on our learning path to the extent as what we had to adopt over the past one year, 12 months. That's nothing for an organisation to adopt, to apply learning journeys, to bring 160,000 people in our case through this learning, that is something which has been so quickly coming up. We knew instantly that it was relevant. It's revolutionary to many of our jobs of how we look at it, and how we can use it. And what do you offer to actually take your people on that journey? So that's what I meant by speed. It's here like this and it's here to stay. And you need to adapt fast to apply the right learnings, the right mechanisms so that people can take the journey and feel comfortable on it. And then obviously it is also a size topic because I'm moving 160,000 people through this learning. Obviously, you don't do this in a day. Obviously, we also have cultural differences. The way Asia deals with new technology is completely different than maybe in some of our European markets where we have different topics which we need to solve. In addition, like not getting enough people to join us. And we have the baby boomers who leave us to retire. So I think the adoption culturally, locally, together with the speed and still make this a movement, that's probably what I would say is relevant. But I'm very proud. We started early this year, two big large initiatives. One we call AI Run and the second one we call Data Excellence, where we really have a movement for all our people. They can sign up, they can do their PRAN certificates. They can do certain runs where they work with use cases, where they start to learn how to prompt. As we all know that this is key when it comes to making GenAI or ChatGPT really an asset. We have adopted the technology internally and we have our Allianz ChatGPT, if you wish, to be in a safe environment also when it comes to data privacy, when it comes to security elements. So these things, I think we have ramped up really, really quickly. And yet still you need to get the people to do the learning, feel comfortable. And most importantly, it's not just about learning and training. It is about applying it. You need to have those use cases where you can test it, where you can start making your own steps with it to see what this can do in your role or in your function.
Juan de Castro: And I'm sure we will deep dive into those initiatives, which are, I think, really fascinating. But one thing you mentioned was, I think you've got this, I don't know how frequently you do it, but this employment engagement survey where you get feedback from your employees. And you said there was a demand from your employees to help us.
Bettina Dietsche: Exactly.
Juan de Castro: So, first of all, I guess I'm just curious about it, because sometimes in these phases of rapid technical change, there are two potential concerns from employees. One is, I am just afraid of the change. And the second one is, okay, help me get on board. So how do you see those two elements in the feedback you get from your employees?
Bettina Dietsche: Very clearly. And I think it's very, I'm grateful and thankful that we get the feedback. As you rightly pointed out, we do our yearly employee engagement survey, typically in autumn, like in September and October. And the feedback last year in September, October, we explicitly asked the question, do you have the capabilities? Do you get the skills which you need for the job of the future? We asked our people, do you feel comfortable moving into the future? And the people actually were very open to share, like, we see that there's a lot that we offer, but they're not feeling 100% comfortable that actually the learning they get really makes them ready for the future. So this is why it's not just about applying more learnings. It's also about upskilling or reskilling in the right way to really make it personal, to really help the people to do this personally. So we have put a huge effort in two dimensions. Firstly, clearly as an organisation. We do see certain things we want, for instance, every leader to really learn, because how can you actually tell your people that learning is fundamental if your leadership is not applying it themselves? Because I would probably say it's very fair to say, no matter which level you're in, learning the new technology is key because you cannot be a role model. You cannot be authentic to your people if you yourself do not walk the talk. So that's why we do certain things where we really want our leaders to be the role models, to go ahead, to lead the path. And that's why we put focus this year very clearly on data and digital, because the feedback from the people was, I want to learn more. I want to apply that more. And then we asked our people, and we call it a so-called pulse check-in, early January already, where we asked every person, hey, let us know what are the top three things you want to learn this year for your current role, which makes you more comfortable in your current role. And what is it that you want to focus on for the skills of the future? But I think it's very fair also to learn. It doesn't help you if you ask for something which might be in five years, because no one knows what's in five years because of the speed. So helping the people now to feel more comfortable, what they need for performing their job now is actually very, very helpful for them to get the comfort that this fear goes away. That's why we ask the people and ask them, tell us your top three things you want to learn. We talk about feedback, obviously. And then again, it's about walking the talk, you need to then go back and say, we listened to you. We know that these are the top three things in your function, in your country. This is what we offer. So that you offer them, very fast also the learnings or the training. Someone would see a difference. And the nice thing was we had a second pulse check-in just at the end of June, where we asked our colleagues, well, you gave us feedback last year. We responded. We've also asked you what you would like to learn. Do you feel that the learnings are there for you? And the feedback was very positive because I consider learning as a two-way street. And typically, if you ask me, I would say everyone should be his or her own CEO. You are relevant for your destiny. So grab what matters for you. And this feedback we got actually now in June was very, very much promising that our people see we take the right action. We give them the room and the area where they can develop themselves. But obviously, also, it's an invitation to them. It's not that we do it to them. It's also that it is, as I said, a two-way street where people grab it, run with it, and train themselves in that element. But the journey since last September, for me, is very rewarding because I think we understand what matters. It matters most for the people to take away their fear also. And then we need to offer now the things which make them stay employable, feel more comfortable with what technology offers. And it's obviously not stopping. I mean, we have our next engagement survey now at the end of September. Very clearly, these are the very key questions. And I'm obviously hoping to first see the people who saw the movement. But secondly, also, if applicable, get us further feedback on what to do more of and what is it that we should actually invest even more for our people. So I like this cycle because I think it's actually also to my earlier point, for me, that is very speeding for a large organisation where you asked 160,000 people. I think getting this then in a fairly quick and agile way of adopting, applying it, learning again out of it and really adopting it again. That's for me what I think organisations need to do. And I'm very proud that we are in a good rhythm of doing this for our people.
Juan de Castro : That's really interesting because you started by saying speed was one of your concerns and it's the speed of training. But obviously, from an HR, people perspective, you also need to increase the speed at which you take feedback. And I think it's really fantastic that you started with these annual cycles. And now you're doing a couple of these pulse checks to get much more frequent feedback.
Bettina Dietsche: I agree. And we're not done with that journey. I think that is also something I've probably learned in my life. This constant challenge is what we offer still right for the setup you're in, the time you're in, and the dynamics. That's for me, I think the biggest must for every organisation, because as you said, we started with yearly cycles. Now we have these pulse check-ins, but you need to also adopt them. Maybe then it's too much because what you want to avoid is people feeling fatigue from entering all the feedback and the questions. So I think this constant sensitivity on how many questions at what point of time are right people want to give feedback and then adopt and check in regularly. That's something I think an organisation needs to figure out. And it's, as I said, for me, it's not standing still. It's a constant challenge. For instance, we have adopted this year, our engagement cycle, typically we had about 65 questions globally. And now we have reduced it by 30%, just to really make it focused on what matters for the people most. And now we try this, let's see what the feedback is, and if we will need to adapt again. But I think that's again, also a bit of the culture of you dare to try, you learn, you adapt. And if it's not the right thing, then adapt again. I mean, that's a bit like taking away the fear that things have to be set in stone. I think those times probably should have never been those times. But those times are clearly over, I would say.
Juan de Castro: And you mentioned a couple of initiatives. I would love to deep dive into those a bit more, a couple of initiatives. Those were just, I guess, two examples. It would be great if you gave us an overview of those initiatives related to Gen AI or data. But also, as you talk through them, how did you make them in a way that they were not just pure theoretical learning? Because I think this is one of the biggest risks, it becomes almost like a university class where you learn the concepts of data, but then it's difficult to do that. Like, what do you do with that once the training course is over?
Bettina Dietsche: I guess that's the key thing. Learning in itself without having a chance to apply it will not last. So I think even the learnings we're doing, they are always with practical exams in there, if you wish, or practical testing so that you start applying it as you read it, as you listen to it. And I think there's no one size fits all. It really depends on what is elementary. You need to learn and make sure that you have really taken certain things seriously. If I talk about data, for instance, I mean, data has a lot to do with security, with data privacy, with all the legal aspects, which I find even for every company is a very important thing. But I think in an insurance company where you deal with customer data, very sensitive data, if you look at health data, for instance, obviously this understanding for every employee is fundamental. So that's why I think you have elements where you really need to understand what's required from you given the sensitivity in the case of data, but also how you can use use cases to apply it in your own area. And for me, that's my biggest push. I think the more you apply it in your universe, the more we will see great use cases coming up where it's not the company telling you to use data excellence in the fraud arena, for instance, or use it in the people function for certain elements, when it's about recruiting, job descriptions, et cetera, it's really that I would love to see that the people themselves figure out what makes their life easier and how do they apply it. And that's the aim when we look at those use cases. And obviously, we slice it also into functions. If I look at Gen AI, we are building on a great, great learning or training, which our technology colleagues have actually developed initially for their developers. Obviously, with the Gen AI and the Large Language Models and all these things, things change drastically for their population, for what is the developer's life in the future. But they all started off with the basics of what is Gen AI and makes it so different. And I think this understanding is really fundamental before then, obviously, for the large population to really start to learn how to prompt. And prompting is not an easy thing. If you do it right, you get a different input rather than if you just do it as you think it should be smart enough for the system to learn. And then you get feedback, which is either fake, wrong but still reads nicely. And you're actually also not trained to make sure that your critical thinking is deep enough to not take every feedback as granted. So I think this kind of thing we try to apply. And with this journey, we offer this in various cycles or waves so that people can always sign up for it. It's not just this one topic and now you have to apply in January. And if you miss that one, the bus is out. We constantly that we offer again a new cohort to start. So, that also the learnings fly into how we offer the learnings. And that's really a big success. I find it even that people have fun to learn, which I think makes a difference instantly in how you apply.
Juan de Castro: And getting into the details, let's take that Gen AI training as an example. So first of all, are you rolling it out across all the employees? Or how are you defining who gets the training?
Bettina Dietsche : No, no, no, we do this. Actually, it's really for all employees. I mean, as I said, we want our leaders, our global leaders. We have roughly a bit more than 15,000 leaders. For them, we really want them to take Gen AI learning, which applies to all of them, that they understand the basics, that they know how to prompt the basic things. And this one, we have now expanded for everyone to sign up, as I said. And it's really for 160,000 people. There's many languages. So we try to actually bring this across, and people have not a handicap even when it's a language topic. And that's not just for Gen AI. We have the same form, we call it the Data for Excellence initiative, where it's really about data basics, data literacy. As I said, the fundamentals of how you apply, how you go after data analysis, what's required, all these things. And we also offer these in many languages. And while we don't want to call this mandatory, I don't think that this is right. But this highly recommended that people, if they would want to focus on data and digital, maybe the two courses are the ones who really make a step change for them. That's how we try to position this so that it also meets the culture of different countries where cultural elements are certainly different depending on how you position this.
Juan de Castro: What have you seen in terms of the engagement from the employees? So out of those 160,000, I mean, especially given that you've not made it mandatory, are you seeing an uptake in the number of people actually taking the course?
Bettina Dietsche: We do, and it’s course by course. Initially, it's funny, sometimes you expect now, you communicate this world, then everyone jumps on it. That's obviously not the case because it takes time until it sinks in and people understand, et cetera. So even though we are now in the Gen AI run, actually we will have on the 21st of September, our third run this year. So in total, we will come up to, I would say, probably between 15,000 and 20,000 people worldwide. Which is quite good to have those many people because you can also say that everyone who did it is an advocate for others to join. So my expectation is the more we do this, also next year when we adapt to it, we will offer it further, that you will see more and more people coming in. And that's, I think, also a good signal because that's this culture of, hey, I know that it's for me. I take this for my personal growth and I want to join and I make priority to this. So that's how we run it. But I'm very proud, actually, of the amount of people who signed up instantly. The first run we did, I think, within the first 15 minutes, we had more than 1,000 people applying, which is a good sign that there is this demand, the need, the wish for learning. Obviously, it's not stopping. It's much rather really continuing. And we need to adapt and learn what works well, what we could do even better, and what focus we want to put. That's, again, falling back to my initial statement. I think none of these things are standing still. You constantly need to look into how I can make it better, easier, faster, more customer-focused in that regard so that people feel as if it's light for them to take it up.
Juan de Castro: I think it's really smart to actually not make it mandatory in the spirit of learning. Because to your point, that is the best way of assessing, is this being useful? Because if you roll it out to the first, whatever, 5,000, 10,000, 15,000 people, if it is useful, you'll see that more people will sign up. If you see that just no more people are signing up, it's sending you a signal that potentially the course is not the right one or they're not getting the benefit. So it is a great example of how you, from a people team perspective, can get really good feedback from the employees on, whether is it working? Is it really helping them or not?
Bettina Dietsche: Exactly. So I think we have also learned a lot. Last year we launched an initiative, which we called Fit for IT, where it was not so much about Gen AI. As I said, this is only 15, 16 months, actually a key topic. But Fit for IT was already coming after COVID as a key theme for our employees. Because what we clearly also see, we tend to talk about the great stuff, the new stuff. But how do you use Teams productively? How do you utilise Kanban or Webex appropriately? So all these basic things, and sometimes we call it basics, but make your life a lot easier if you are savvy in using it, you know exactly how to invite, how to do this and how to do this. That's what makes productivity and ease of use of technology also a game changer. That's why last year with this Fit for IT, which we launched globally, we really on purpose wanted to say, hey, how do we use Teams? How do we use SharePoint? How do we connect ourselves through a Webex in the most efficient way? And these things are for the majority of people, really also productivity killers, I call them. If you're not used to how you do it, the new technology, which allows you to be completely different than even two or three years back when we were still during COVID, when we basically had everything via email and the rest was not existing. So I really think these things are not to underestimate that basics make productivity lives of an employee different and building on that, then the cool stuff, I call it. How can Gen AI help us? That's a nice combination, but I would find it weird to also only talk about the cool stuff if people struggle with the basics. That's not what I think makes it grow.
Juan de Castro: It goes back to the message of ‘help me be my best at my job’. And that is not just cool stuff. That is just a basic infrastructure that you need to be productive in whatever role you have, right?
Bettina Dietsche: Exactly.
Juan de Castro: You've touched on this a little bit already, but in these engagement surveys and in these intermediate polls once, how have you seen the feedback change? Especially perhaps in the Gen AI space, which is one of the areas which is moving the fastest. Are you seeing different types of feedback in these intermediate polls or not?
Bettina Dietsche: Not on the Gen AI yet. Maybe now with the next engagement survey, I'm very much sure we will get specific feedback on these Gen AI things. I see in general that, as I said, from the check-ins, the feedback was more like, offer us a variety. It's not just Gen AI. Offer us the variety of how do I actually, as I said, use the Microsoft suites and the daily usage best possible. How can I look at dashboards? That links a bit again back to data also. How can I work with those in a more effective and efficient way? So those were the feedbacks we saw now in the first half year. But I'm curious to see, obviously, how it continues now with the effort we've put so much on Gen AI, but also, as I said, on data, data excellence.
Juan de Castro: And as you mentioned earlier, obviously, there are differences, not just cultural differences, but also the way you probably conduct business in different areas of the world. So do you tend to do this type of training globally or how much do you customise it by region?
Bettina Dietsche: We look into it. Some things we have are really global so it makes sense that all of us understand and get the same. Also explicitly for leaders, I find that there are many messages, not just on data, by the way, and technology, but also we're putting a huge effort these days on sustainability. And I think the messaging to our leaders needs to be the same. Everyone needs to understand you're part of this Allianz group. This is what sustainability means for us. This is how we want to make a difference when it comes to products, to solutions, but also when it comes to data, obviously, and how we comply with data. So there we are very much on this is a global message and it needs to reach globally the people in the same way. But obviously, then you have local differences in some instances and majorities to it. And there I find I call it local in many areas. I find it's very relevant to make it an adoption to see that it really fits best what's needed most for a company. And the US is different from Europe. Europe is different from Asia. And I think we are only well advised to make adoptions where it makes a difference for our people.
Juan de Castro: And you also touched on it earlier, which I thought perhaps we would talk about for a few minutes about the challenges of hiring people in Europe, the Baby Boomers, the cycle. So I guess two questions on that. I mean, obviously, this is something which is industry-wide. It's a challenge for the whole industry. But one, how much of it do you think it's actually just because of the birth rates and number of people retiring, et cetera? And how much do you think it is about our ability as an industry to attract talent to the industry? We'd love to hear your thoughts on that.
Bettina Dietsche: I think in most cases, it's not one root course, probably. It has many reasons. And in our case, obviously, I would say as an industry, starting probably from an industry perspective, I think dealing, for instance, with generations in a smarter way, I think something that's what we can learn. And maybe it's fair to say it's not just an industry topic. It's in general, it's more probably a cultural market topic. I find if I look at Allianz, we have five generations. What an asset. You can see this as an asset or you can see this as, oh, my God, I see this as an asset because having young talents coming in, benefiting from very experienced colleagues who have been seeing a lot of things, have been in different roles, matured, that's a big, big asset to bundle those things together. And the same is for the experienced colleagues having younger talents coming in where innovation is a key scene. Where dynamic, maybe in some areas is also a key scene. That's also an asset. And I think we are well advised if we pick those in a much smarter, consistent way, because explicitly here in Western Europe, I sometimes think we tend to say that someone who's beyond 50 or beyond 55 is actually close to retirement, which is really lose, lose, lose. Firstly, I think we need them. We need brains. We need the experience. But secondly, also, it's an asset to pair it together with the younger generations coming in. So I think it's not just a structural topic. It's also as an organisation, how we respond to generations and how we make them feel being part jointly together, making a difference for the customer, for the people, for the innovation we want to bring forward. So that's how I look at this. But I also think that there are many more aspects which design what's needed for the future. That has to do with the learning out of COVID, how flexibility makes a difference for people. I mean, there's not a lot of good stuff COVID left behind, but clearly that one in the sense of how we look at productivity, not in a, you need to be in a room to be productive. You can do your job wherever you are. How can we also give flexibility to our future employees, candidates to attract them because they actually don't need to be physically in a location five days a week. And this way for me shapes a lot more of how we influence the demand of the situation where people retire, where others come in. If there is a gap, I think if you offer more of this flexibility as an organisation, you're well advised to cope then with the situation and not falling back into old habits and in old, maybe even stigmas or examples or setups, which do not work in the future for many talents we want to attract. So that's why for me, the flexibility, the openness, the hybrid way of working, allows people to work from abroad. That's such a big asset as a company we offer that I hear this really from talents. When we attract them, they ask for this. And if you can tell them, look, we're open, you're here, you're the best talent. If we select you, we have certain things which we feel are relevant for the company and the team to actually click with the culture. But in general, we're very open about where and how you deliver your job. That's a big asset as a company.
Juan de Castro: Definitely, I think we experience the same. It's less about remote or in the office. It's more about the concept of flexibility and almost having a setup that people understand. And that might be a hybrid one where you say, well, if you don't need to be in the office, you can work remotely. But there are some events where it's better to do them in the office. And therefore, we expect you to be here. But it's more about, I think, when I reflect on COVID, what the major change, even more so than remote or in the offices, is people seek to understand the rules. People need to understand why you ask them to be in the office. And I think it leads to, obviously, greater flexibility, but also I think it's a greater understanding. And I think also the younger generations, many of them who joined in the last five years, did not experience the world before then.
Bettina Dietsche: And I think there it's like always being clear, having clarity and transparency on how you look at these things and what models you support, what situations you're facing. I keep saying in our case, doing the right things at the right place. That's the motto, I would call it. So I think making sure that if someone joins a company, that it's super, super key that he or she clicks with the culture, that he or she experiences where we are, what our offices look like, how it smells, how it tastes, how people talk, how it looks like. For me, that's the real game changer to make people successful in not just onboarding, but feeling comfortable that this is their new home. The same is basically when I look at how we innovate new products? It's so much easier for many of the discussions, when you have people in the room to innovate because you can talk differently, you have the energy, which is always you need to be super disciplined when you're only on a screen. And I think if you figure out as a team what matters most to make a difference for the customer, for the team's healthiness, for the spirit, then actually you will be clear and everyone can follow what makes the team successful. And if this is clear, I think people are best satisfied because then they know when they have their flexibility, but also when are the moments where it matters to have everyone together.
Juan de Castro: One last question, and I'm almost circling back to the very beginning of the episode. Obviously, you started by explaining your background coming from a COO operation side, kind of background into a people role, which is not a transition you see quite often. The people that lead people have been in that function for most of their careers. So what are the upsides and the downsides? What are the things that you think bring a fresh perspective? But what are also the things that are more of a challenge for you without that background?
Bettina Dietsche: Very fair question. I think the biggest upside is very clearly that I talk business. So when I talk to our OEs, to our entities, with their CEOs and their boards, obviously they know me as the person who understands the business. And that's the biggest upside because whatever I talk with them, what matters for them, what's relevant, how can I make sure in my role that whatever I put out and try to push that it matters for their business success. That's probably, I think, the biggest upside in assets. And I also feel very comfortable. So very clearly, I work with my people directors globally. They are my team. But I actually have very regular sessions with every CEO to say, okay, look, this is what I see. This is what I can do. This is what we need to do differently. This is where I want you, the CEO, to take ownership differently. And I think sitting at the table on that piece is the biggest upside, that there's someone who understands exactly what matters for business. Is there a downside? I'm not looking at it this way. I will probably say I'm not a lawyer and not a legal lawyer, a labour law lawyer. So I know clearly for everything you still need to have in place, the contracts, all the labour law topics, which are super, super crucial to respect, obviously, that I have experts in my team who I trust that they are my best colleagues to advise me and to help me. And still, I think that every year so often having the business mindset on being practical and not legally tight is quite helpful because you can easily also end up in being only legal talks, which obviously will potentially not move the needle for the business. So I feel not that there's a downside. I actually really feel that with my background, with my different ways of looking at things, I can help shape the function of sitting at the table, making a difference for what all our employees will hopefully experience as a benefit. And for me, the biggest asset, if they go out and say, Allianz is the greatest place to work. What a nice branding if they do it rather than the company needs to continuously talk about how great we are. We are great, but the better advocates are clearly if people actually full heartedly can share this with their friends, their families, their talents. And sometimes we get them through this channel, actually great people who join us because they trust that what they hear from the people is actually also what they experience daily.
Juan de Castro: Okay, I think this is a fantastic way of wrapping up the episode. I think clearly you've brought it to life in the last 40 minutes, how you really are focused on the business side of the business and really enabling the employees to shine in that environment rather than from a more traditional process and rewards. And well, there are things that are still important. But again, you bring this perspective, which has been very clear throughout the episode. Bettina, thank you so much for joining me. It's been a real pleasure having you.
Bettina Dietsche: Thanks, Juan. It was my pleasure. And all the best for you.
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